36fps und dgp

[Olaf Lehmann]

I need your advice/opinion on something.
I had previously thought that people who still drive at 36fps are averse to anything new...and that therefore dgp at 36fps is pointless.
But now I hear that this is not always the case; that some don't hate the patch, but have computers too slow for 60fps.
So I started this week to create a 36fps dgp patch. That worked so far without major problems, but then I thought of something.


I would like to elaborate a bit: Already in 2013 I had considered to increase the slipstream effect. But I discarded it, because I was afraid to get trouble with the rankfranction.
When I - if I remember correctly in 2018 - integrated the harder damage model into the patch (same damage online as offline) I dared to increase the slipstream (also because I thought that the damage increase would probably be better received). Originally I wanted to lock the patch offline, so it wouldn't be too easy to suddenly improve the rank for dgp friends. But then I saw that the AI at 60fps is useless (I only noticed it when I tried it, since I never race against computer opponents). So that was the end of the issue.
Now - at 36fps - the issue arises new. My idea would actually be to increase the slipstream only online, offline it remains with the normal slipstream. Thus one could use the advantage only rarely - if one finds online comrades-in-arms. As it is already with the 60fps patch.
However, I see a problem there. If you would train offline and then participate in an onlinerace, it is probably dangerous, because you would suddenly have to rethink.
Hmm. But I don't want to give up the slipstream effect completely.
I can't make up my mind. I haven't a perfect look into the psyche of AI friends and people for whom the ranking system is very important.
I have always been very careful not to create a situation where people with different physics are competing in a race. That's why I made sure from the beginning that you can't get on a normal gpl server with dgp and vice versa. I see the rank only secondary, that means it was never that important to me. In my sight it is also completely unrealistic that the times remain comparable over more than twenty years. When has that ever happened in real racing?


So, it would be good to hear what you think about this.
Maybe I'm thinking too much about it....


BR Olaf

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[Dag_J]

Well I support any initiative to increase the attention around dgp. As it stands now the only league that I know of that used to drive 36 fps is oAo but they have now moved to 60 fps. Other than this Im not sure who is still running 36 fps , maybe PDLR?

In any case , I would like to re-introduce the idea of singling out the repair feature of dgp to a standalone patch to be freely used like the refuel patches. Introducing one of the features like this might spark some interest.

This would not be any type of unfair advantage as I see it , the community might see it as such but when you think about it it really isnt. It only adds an option to continue a race that isnt going well. There is nothing to be gained in a race to have the opportunity to repair other than it will allow the driver to continue his race. And if anybody can apply this patch then its not reserved for some and not others. This will introduce a part of dgp into the realm of "regular" gpl. We cant wait for them , we have to invade them is the idea..

As for the slipstream Im pretty much fine either way with the regular or the enhanced version as the difference seem to be pretty marginal. I do however agree that such a thing has to be locked for the entire grid as this would obviously be an advantage in the race.

EDIT : Such a repair patch should also maybe also contain the damage model thing that was introduced with the 80 version of dgp if its possible.

[tagomago]

...
I had previously thought that people who still drive at 36fps are averse to anything new...and that therefore dgp at 36fps is pointless.
But now I hear that this is not always the case; that some don't hate the patch, but have computers too slow for 60fps.
...

For high-level performance, a set of different components, drivers and configuration is usually required.

- PC ... operating system, different components, drivers and configuration.
- Steering wheel, its drivers and configuration
- Gpl with its configuration
- setups
- Pilot performance and ergonomics of the installation: table, screen position, steering wheel position, distance to pedals, suitable socks, motivation, etc ...

Once this set is achieved and over time begins a progression that takes you (in my case not) in the Rank to considerable positions.

Let's consider that only one of these parameters changes as for example the steering wheel ... it may happen that the driver does not have the same feeling so that the performance at certain levels will be significantly worse.

The driver tends to keep those settings, which leads us for example to an XP machine with a Logitch Momo steering wheel.

On that machine you can run and make world records on 55 at 36 fps and yet it is impossible to obtain a performance equivalent to 60 fps (tests carried out in 2021).

Considering that the GPL has been in use for 20 years and that the initial online races were done with modems it's logical to think that some of us are still using antidiluvian machines to race: at 36 fps there is no problem while at 60 fps you need a computer of today.

I think that's why some leagues keep the 36 fps ... pdlr, gplracer, adc, lbgpl, gpl_brasil, lopen, ...

[Dag_J]

Are you guys looking to implement dgp in PDLR Josè Luis?

[tagomago]

Are you guys looking to implement dgp in PDLR Josè Luis?

I would like to propose the use of dgp for the next season ... still working the idea and format ... yes

In other times it was possible to stop in the pits to solve problems ...

Olaf's dgp opens a great new dimension to recreate old situations entering boxes and that's a fantastic way to cheer up a championship

[tagomago]

...
In my sight it is also completely unrealistic that the times remain comparable over more than twenty years. When has that ever happened in real racing? ...

While the phrase is true, in real racing you cannot repeat a year while we run in each year according to the mod, so we can keep the comparison over time and that is one of the most attractive things of GPLRank.

If the times of today are still comparable with those of the 1st day is because the community has wanted it to be so, and therefore it is important to respect the Rank.

...
"I don't want to give up the slipstream effect completely, but I can't make up my mind." ...

From the point of view of respecting the rank times, the slipstream should not be corrected because it changes the original physics in such a way that it allows faster times than before, which conflicts with the spirit of the community as yourself commented.

For changes of this type the ideal would be to join forces with the mod makers and create one of your own ... 1967dgp? ... that allows the difference in contrast times, and that way or something similar you could modify the physics without problem.

[Olaf Lehmann]

Now there is movement in the thread after all...very late though. Too late.
Since I thought that no one would comment on it, I have already published the patch in SRMZ forum.

From the point of view of respecting the rank times, the slipstream should not be corrected because it changes the original physics in such a way that it allows faster times than before, which conflicts with the spirit of the community as yourself commented.

So the decision has already been made in this point too. I have decided on a compromise. The slipstream is increased a little, but not as much as in the 60fps version.
As I said, I was really unsure, but since I didn't get any advice, I did it as I thought - but" with handbrake slightly on"...
It seems acceptable to me, since it is
-combined with dirteffect, which slows you down on many tracks - even if you leave the track with only two wheels.
-I didn't notice in the HIES races that the WR didn't drop without end.
-it seems to me that GPL Rank is not really running anymore because there is no real admin.

For changes of this type the ideal would be to join forces with the mod makers and create one of your own ... 1967dgp? ... that allows the difference in contrast times, and that way or something similar you could modify the physics without problem.

DGP replays have a marker. Therefore, when checking whether it is a world record, it should actually stand out whether it was ridden with DGP or without. But RA PB Viewer can't tell the difference though.

at 36 fps there is no problem while at 60 fps you need a computer of today.

Contradiction from my side. When I tested the 36fps patch, I noticed that my image was very jerky throughout, even though I have a stable 36fps.
This is obviously due to my flat screen monitor, which can only display 60fps and 50fps. That's why I see the constant jerking.
That was Brr's reason for doing the 60fps patch, if I remember correctly.
So I don't think the problem is that 36fps is too low (a good old cinema film runs at 24fps and you don't notice any judder), but that the game and today's monitors don't fit together.


If anyone has a solution that doesn't require me to buy another monitor, I'm all ears...

BR Olaf

[tagomago]

...

DGP replays have a marker. Therefore, when checking whether it is a world record, it should actually stand out whether it was ridden with DGP or without.

Great ... that solves the problem ... because if the rank people can identify that the lap has been made, or not, with the patch they only need to know how to identify it ... it will be enough to notify them how to do it

The rank seems to be unattended but is still in operation ... we know that there are efforts to regain momentum.

[tagomago]

...
When I tested the 36fps patch, I noticed that my image was very jerky throughout, even though I have a stable 36fps.
This is obviously due to my flat screen monitor, which can only display 60fps and 50fps.

You surprise me Olaf

I guess you are very used to 60 fps and then you notice the difference with 36 ... they say that especially when coming from other sims it is very noticeable.

However the situation you describe is strange to me because we have been using 60Hz monitors for many years and when you get the 36 fps stable the fluidity of movement is good and you do not see that spasmodic effect that you describe.

I'm not an expert but they recommend you to use opengl and if that configuration doesn't work then switch to direct3d, depending on the graphics card you use one may work better than the other.

and then the problem is never of the monitor, but of the graphics card configuration.

On the other hand there are some 60 fps settings that should be disabled when you return to 36 fps.

From GPL_Easy_Installation_Guide_ENG_v2.1:

Remove the check mark at "Enable VSync" if you are using 36 FPS, otherwise you will have massive FPS (frames per second) drops. But if you use the 60 FPS patch you have to activate "VSync" in GEM+. In the configuration menu of your graphics card, set the 3D settings under "Vertical Synchronization" to "Global Settings". This is the best setting for GPL with 36 FPS and 60 FPS.

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